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	<title>Comments on: Depression And Sex &#8211; What Happened To My Libido?</title>
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		<title>By: KinkyJew</title>
		<link>http://toywithme.com/sexual-health/depression-and-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-18486</link>
		<dc:creator>KinkyJew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 03:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toywithme.com/?p=2034#comment-18486</guid>
		<description>SG - I am FASCINATED!!! I&#039;ve never heard of this, but I will TOTALLY ask my doctor about it. Especially considering my concerns about the postpartum period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SG &#8211; I am FASCINATED!!! I&#8217;ve never heard of this, but I will TOTALLY ask my doctor about it. Especially considering my concerns about the postpartum period.</p>
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		<title>By: scientist girl</title>
		<link>http://toywithme.com/sexual-health/depression-and-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-18483</link>
		<dc:creator>scientist girl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 01:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toywithme.com/?p=2034#comment-18483</guid>
		<description>ask your doctors about the vitamin Deplin.  It is used to increase the effectiveness of antidepressants.  I was on zoloft for 7 years and lexapro for 3 and then weaned off the lexapro and use only the vitamin (prescription only).  Its WONDERFUL, I haven&#039;t felt this good in 20 years and the orgasms are unfreakingbelievable!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ask your doctors about the vitamin Deplin.  It is used to increase the effectiveness of antidepressants.  I was on zoloft for 7 years and lexapro for 3 and then weaned off the lexapro and use only the vitamin (prescription only).  Its WONDERFUL, I haven&#8217;t felt this good in 20 years and the orgasms are unfreakingbelievable!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Toy With Me</title>
		<link>http://toywithme.com/sexual-health/depression-and-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-18385</link>
		<dc:creator>Toy With Me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 15:38:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toywithme.com/?p=2034#comment-18385</guid>
		<description>“Drugs are a crutch. You NEED a crutch when you break your foot, but the point of a crutch is to help you walk again, someday without it.” Very well put KJ

Delisha - What a good friend.  Hopefully more people show those they know on certain meds.  this article.  It&#039;s always a relief to know you are not the only one.

Britni TheVadgeWig - Happy to hear you were able to manage your depression without meds.  Glad you added your last statement &quot;For some people, medication is a necessity.&quot;

Tom - Thanks for your insight.

Rose - So glad to hear you have such a supportive boyfriend.  

ThatToyChick - Thanks for mentioning this very important advice. &quot; It’s always important to keep in close contact with, and follow your doctor’s instructions. Most importantly, don’t hesitate to discuss any side effect – including sexual dysfunction – with him or her to keep them in the loop.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Drugs are a crutch. You NEED a crutch when you break your foot, but the point of a crutch is to help you walk again, someday without it.” Very well put KJ</p>
<p>Delisha &#8211; What a good friend.  Hopefully more people show those they know on certain meds.  this article.  It&#8217;s always a relief to know you are not the only one.</p>
<p>Britni TheVadgeWig &#8211; Happy to hear you were able to manage your depression without meds.  Glad you added your last statement &#8220;For some people, medication is a necessity.&#8221;</p>
<p>Tom &#8211; Thanks for your insight.</p>
<p>Rose &#8211; So glad to hear you have such a supportive boyfriend.  </p>
<p>ThatToyChick &#8211; Thanks for mentioning this very important advice. &#8221; It’s always important to keep in close contact with, and follow your doctor’s instructions. Most importantly, don’t hesitate to discuss any side effect – including sexual dysfunction – with him or her to keep them in the loop.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Crissy</title>
		<link>http://toywithme.com/sexual-health/depression-and-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-18381</link>
		<dc:creator>Crissy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 14:56:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toywithme.com/?p=2034#comment-18381</guid>
		<description>I had a very brief period where I had to be on anti-depressants, and I could not orgasm no matter what.  It sucked and made me even more depressed.  

I honestly think anti-depressants just make things worse.  If the choice is between feeling sadness and feeling nothing, I&#039;ll take sadness.  At least I&#039;m feeling something (and having orgasms!).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had a very brief period where I had to be on anti-depressants, and I could not orgasm no matter what.  It sucked and made me even more depressed.  </p>
<p>I honestly think anti-depressants just make things worse.  If the choice is between feeling sadness and feeling nothing, I&#8217;ll take sadness.  At least I&#8217;m feeling something (and having orgasms!).</p>
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		<title>By: ThatToyChick</title>
		<link>http://toywithme.com/sexual-health/depression-and-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-18376</link>
		<dc:creator>ThatToyChick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 03:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toywithme.com/?p=2034#comment-18376</guid>
		<description>KJ makes an excellent point - there are those of us who are fortunate enough to be able to use the drugs to get past a rough spot, and use alternative therapies (i.e. support network and other non-medicinal tacks)....and there are those who it definitely is not an option for. It&#039;s always important to keep in close contact with, and follow your doctor&#039;s instructions. Most importantly, don&#039;t hesitate to discuss any side effect - including sexual dysfunction - with him or her to keep them in the loop.

The drug companies ARE paying considerably more attention to the sensual impact of their MAOI inhibitors and the like than they did in years before. My stance is that there&#039;s still a long way to go, and I&#039;ll be happy when they make some breakthroughs. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KJ makes an excellent point &#8211; there are those of us who are fortunate enough to be able to use the drugs to get past a rough spot, and use alternative therapies (i.e. support network and other non-medicinal tacks)&#8230;.and there are those who it definitely is not an option for. It&#8217;s always important to keep in close contact with, and follow your doctor&#8217;s instructions. Most importantly, don&#8217;t hesitate to discuss any side effect &#8211; including sexual dysfunction &#8211; with him or her to keep them in the loop.</p>
<p>The drug companies ARE paying considerably more attention to the sensual impact of their MAOI inhibitors and the like than they did in years before. My stance is that there&#8217;s still a long way to go, and I&#8217;ll be happy when they make some breakthroughs. <img src='http://toywithme.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Lilly</title>
		<link>http://toywithme.com/sexual-health/depression-and-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-18374</link>
		<dc:creator>Lilly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 03:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toywithme.com/?p=2034#comment-18374</guid>
		<description>Someone might have mentioned this up there in a really long comment but I&#039;m off my meds right now, hahah, and so my ADD is whew bad and my focus? zilcho. 

Where was I?

Oh yeah. Try different meds. Try Wellbutrin, it&#039;s supposed to be the least killing of sex drives. For my hub it reallllly helped him and helped him be more sensitive. At first it helped me, but I&#039;m a complicated puzzle chickie so nobody should base themselves of what does and doesn&#039;t work for me. 
Bottom line is: Sex and orgasms produce happy endorphins which make your mood better and your skin better and all that jazz. If your anti-d takes that away? Move along to the next drug. There&#039;s a shit ton. One will be right, just try to get thru the hazing periods. 
Psych meds turn 85% of people into guinea pigs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone might have mentioned this up there in a really long comment but I&#8217;m off my meds right now, hahah, and so my ADD is whew bad and my focus? zilcho. </p>
<p>Where was I?</p>
<p>Oh yeah. Try different meds. Try Wellbutrin, it&#8217;s supposed to be the least killing of sex drives. For my hub it reallllly helped him and helped him be more sensitive. At first it helped me, but I&#8217;m a complicated puzzle chickie so nobody should base themselves of what does and doesn&#8217;t work for me.<br />
Bottom line is: Sex and orgasms produce happy endorphins which make your mood better and your skin better and all that jazz. If your anti-d takes that away? Move along to the next drug. There&#8217;s a shit ton. One will be right, just try to get thru the hazing periods.<br />
Psych meds turn 85% of people into guinea pigs.</p>
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		<title>By: KinkyJew</title>
		<link>http://toywithme.com/sexual-health/depression-and-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-18371</link>
		<dc:creator>KinkyJew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 02:05:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toywithme.com/?p=2034#comment-18371</guid>
		<description>Thanks everyone for your comments! I think if you have friends out there who think they&#039;re alone, in either their depression or in the sexual side effects, you should ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY show them this column. I mean, I can&#039;t speak for other people here, but for me, I didn&#039;t care either way about sex. It was like asking me if I wanted to wear a blue shirt or a red shirt; does it REALLY matter? Meh, probably not. Things get better though!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks everyone for your comments! I think if you have friends out there who think they&#8217;re alone, in either their depression or in the sexual side effects, you should ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY show them this column. I mean, I can&#8217;t speak for other people here, but for me, I didn&#8217;t care either way about sex. It was like asking me if I wanted to wear a blue shirt or a red shirt; does it REALLY matter? Meh, probably not. Things get better though!!</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://toywithme.com/sexual-health/depression-and-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-18370</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 23:19:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toywithme.com/?p=2034#comment-18370</guid>
		<description>Just one more thing. Condoms - Bit of lube on the cock beforehand, the best condom you can find for feeling, comfort, pleasure (not too tight, too thick, etc). lube afterwards, lube for woman. 

If the female partner is ok with it (and don&#039;t guilt trip them), you&#039;ve checked up for STDs etc, then if the female goes on the pill or similar, the sensation from being condomless might help also.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just one more thing. Condoms &#8211; Bit of lube on the cock beforehand, the best condom you can find for feeling, comfort, pleasure (not too tight, too thick, etc). lube afterwards, lube for woman. </p>
<p>If the female partner is ok with it (and don&#8217;t guilt trip them), you&#8217;ve checked up for STDs etc, then if the female goes on the pill or similar, the sensation from being condomless might help also.</p>
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		<title>By: Rose</title>
		<link>http://toywithme.com/sexual-health/depression-and-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-18369</link>
		<dc:creator>Rose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 23:04:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toywithme.com/?p=2034#comment-18369</guid>
		<description>Absolutely! I am only 18 but I have clinical depression and have to take meds for it. Lemme tell you, the meds are a life-saver (literally) to me, and really help me function. I am extremely lucky, because...well, seeing as I am a teenage girl...I am horny like one, too. HAH! At first, I couldn&#039;t care less, but with a new boyfriend? Impossible to keep my pants on. They kinda fall off when he is around. I am hoping that won&#039;t fade *that* much over time, but you can only take one day at a time. 

Sometimes, I just don&#039;t feel like fucking. doing. it. Sometimes, I am so emotional and wrapped up in my own anxieties and panic attacks that I just can&#039;t function as a human, let alone have sex. But my boyfriend is extremely understanding of me, even if he has a monster of a libido. I really appriciate it from him. He holds my hand and is always there for me to talk to, and tries to make my day a little brighter when I am in the darkest of times. Sometimes, I can&#039;t go on fighting, but I feel like he can catch me if I fall. So...I pay him back. ;) Not only do I want to, but I like to. It balances out nicely. We will see how things change as time goes on, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely! I am only 18 but I have clinical depression and have to take meds for it. Lemme tell you, the meds are a life-saver (literally) to me, and really help me function. I am extremely lucky, because&#8230;well, seeing as I am a teenage girl&#8230;I am horny like one, too. HAH! At first, I couldn&#8217;t care less, but with a new boyfriend? Impossible to keep my pants on. They kinda fall off when he is around. I am hoping that won&#8217;t fade *that* much over time, but you can only take one day at a time. </p>
<p>Sometimes, I just don&#8217;t feel like fucking. doing. it. Sometimes, I am so emotional and wrapped up in my own anxieties and panic attacks that I just can&#8217;t function as a human, let alone have sex. But my boyfriend is extremely understanding of me, even if he has a monster of a libido. I really appriciate it from him. He holds my hand and is always there for me to talk to, and tries to make my day a little brighter when I am in the darkest of times. Sometimes, I can&#8217;t go on fighting, but I feel like he can catch me if I fall. So&#8230;I pay him back. <img src='http://toywithme.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  Not only do I want to, but I like to. It balances out nicely. We will see how things change as time goes on, though.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://toywithme.com/sexual-health/depression-and-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-18368</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 23:00:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toywithme.com/?p=2034#comment-18368</guid>
		<description>Can empathise, sympathise with this.

Couple of things - 
There&#039;s no 1 antidepressive medicine fits all. Some work better than others. It&#039;s good to and people are v. likely to have gone through a process of finding what antidepressive med works for them. Any given type can work with no side-effects for one person, and have untolerable side effects for another. 
The annoying thing is that you can have good anti=depressives, that give tolerable but frustrating side effects - e.g. feeling fuzzy/a bit out of it. i&#039;d also class libido crushing as one of these. It&#039;s a damned pain, as losing your libido is in of itself a) frustrating, b) depressing!

Some find being depressed has killed sex, horniness, ability to come before hand. for some it was there, but the meds killed it.

One thing you can do, and this is totally something you discuss with your doctor, GP, what have you, is to discuss about medicine vacations. Due to the half life (the length of time the  ingredients in the meds that do their thing stay in your body) of (some) antidepressants, you can reduce your antidepressants you take say the day before you want sex. 
e.g. not take one on friday, aim for sex saturday evening, take them after sex, then get back to routine (i&#039;m assuming once daily here). 

It&#039;s something that needs to be balanced, but for some, it can be a relationship saver - Sex, libido is a big thing for guys, girls, and relationships. Being able to feel sexy, feel horny, feel sexual stimulatino, be able to orgasm can have been an assumed thing - but they can go from depression, they can be affected by anti-depressive (and other) medications. 

Another point - For the smokers out there... There is some talk, so go look it up, that there is off label use of Bupropion (Branded as Zyban in the UK). It&#039;s not Over the counter, but prescription afaik in the UK. But, if you&#039;re a smoker, you can get some of this via giving up smoking. 

This sort of discussion, like the article is promoting, is very useful. 
I&#039;d highlight the advice of DIET, EXERCISE, and bolstering and using whatever support system you can get.

Guys can in (and i don&#039;t know the percentage, so let&#039;s say) some cases still get fairly decent hardons. It&#039;ll vary. But the ability to come can really be knocked for six. Much like women, who might find it hard/impossible to even  feel  turned on, and have prooblems with lubrication, sensitivity, lose the ability to lock onto and build up to orgasm that guuuuurd feeling of the pleasure working it&#039;s way to orgasm that you know and  love.

Getting red sore, arm aching to physical exortion - collapse with exertion from what you could call frantic wanking (it seems the speed at which you have to masturbate seems can up by a fair bit if you&#039;re able to sometimes come from pleasuring yourself). 

Thank fuck for toys for women if they help. A damned good vibe that might turn on the car alarm of a car in the street below might not feel as good on meds, but it might give some ohhhhhhhhhh thankhallejuahfuckforsmallmerciesgoddimissthatfeelingohthetensionisgoingifeelgoodforonceoooh orgasm, large or small.

Impossible to near impossible. For guys? Well, let&#039;s just say there ain&#039;t no bloody vibrator for guys. A shimmying cockring with vibe ain&#039;t the same. 
I don&#039;t know about Tenga, flip toys, but could imagine the textured sheets you can get to help jack off might help. Lube, getting a decent blowjob as soon as you feel horny and get an erection can also help - For guys, a BJ might still work. Will take longer likely, but it can work. 
For women, same thing - cunnilingus might work, but take fucking ages, or be a good starter for sex with a vibe, or a vibe session. 

Some meds may have a damned good reason not to tinker round with dosing etc. But speak to your doctor - chat about options. Might Cialis, or Viagra give a boost to the chance of coming, or getting light relief?
Could (um, i think i read ginko extract) do the trick?
Put the person who&#039;s needing to get better first. If it&#039;s both of you, then you&#039;ve got more to sort, but it&#039;s still manageable. Work through it, keep trying things, and remember there is other stuff beyond sex. I know that sounds harsh, but for those being treated for depression, you can have periods when you do feel more alive, more up. Whether it takes bunjee jumping then romping in the car, or going to Alton Towers and getting frisky in the bushes. Maybe it&#039;s just learning to be sensual, and fin out more about each other in that light.
Don&#039;t just mess arond with your meds. Don&#039;t just stop for because of the frustration. It&#039;s a hard thing to accept, but the likely temporary sacrifice of orgasm and sexis for a better thing - and that&#039;s the getting better, improving management of you, your partner, your friend&#039;s life.

Talking it through is useful. I&#039;d imagine it can affect women and men in all manner of ways. A man might want to retreat to his cave - his masculinity seemingly having taken a bodyblow. A women might feel guilt from not being able to pleasure his boyfriend, or guilt from not really feeling like they want to. etc.
Don&#039;t bottle it up.
Understanding, communicating, is vital. Talk about what&#039;s going on, silly emotions, silly thoughts whatever. It can help. 

You might be surprised at who, and how many people, have seen the dark side of things like depression.

If anyone&#039;s watched West Wing, i&#039;d refer to the scene when Josh Lyman gets treatment for PTSD and Leo talks about him never losing his job whilst he&#039;s around.  person falls into a hole, and can&#039;t get out. Their friend walks by, and seeing them, jumps down to them. Person who&#039;s been stuck down there goes - But why did you jump down? Now we both are stuck! the other one goes - but I know ways up and out - i&#039;ve been down here before.

(It&#039;s better when you watch it :) )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can empathise, sympathise with this.</p>
<p>Couple of things &#8211;<br />
There&#8217;s no 1 antidepressive medicine fits all. Some work better than others. It&#8217;s good to and people are v. likely to have gone through a process of finding what antidepressive med works for them. Any given type can work with no side-effects for one person, and have untolerable side effects for another.<br />
The annoying thing is that you can have good anti=depressives, that give tolerable but frustrating side effects &#8211; e.g. feeling fuzzy/a bit out of it. i&#8217;d also class libido crushing as one of these. It&#8217;s a damned pain, as losing your libido is in of itself a) frustrating, b) depressing!</p>
<p>Some find being depressed has killed sex, horniness, ability to come before hand. for some it was there, but the meds killed it.</p>
<p>One thing you can do, and this is totally something you discuss with your doctor, GP, what have you, is to discuss about medicine vacations. Due to the half life (the length of time the  ingredients in the meds that do their thing stay in your body) of (some) antidepressants, you can reduce your antidepressants you take say the day before you want sex.<br />
e.g. not take one on friday, aim for sex saturday evening, take them after sex, then get back to routine (i&#8217;m assuming once daily here). </p>
<p>It&#8217;s something that needs to be balanced, but for some, it can be a relationship saver &#8211; Sex, libido is a big thing for guys, girls, and relationships. Being able to feel sexy, feel horny, feel sexual stimulatino, be able to orgasm can have been an assumed thing &#8211; but they can go from depression, they can be affected by anti-depressive (and other) medications. </p>
<p>Another point &#8211; For the smokers out there&#8230; There is some talk, so go look it up, that there is off label use of Bupropion (Branded as Zyban in the UK). It&#8217;s not Over the counter, but prescription afaik in the UK. But, if you&#8217;re a smoker, you can get some of this via giving up smoking. </p>
<p>This sort of discussion, like the article is promoting, is very useful.<br />
I&#8217;d highlight the advice of DIET, EXERCISE, and bolstering and using whatever support system you can get.</p>
<p>Guys can in (and i don&#8217;t know the percentage, so let&#8217;s say) some cases still get fairly decent hardons. It&#8217;ll vary. But the ability to come can really be knocked for six. Much like women, who might find it hard/impossible to even  feel  turned on, and have prooblems with lubrication, sensitivity, lose the ability to lock onto and build up to orgasm that guuuuurd feeling of the pleasure working it&#8217;s way to orgasm that you know and  love.</p>
<p>Getting red sore, arm aching to physical exortion &#8211; collapse with exertion from what you could call frantic wanking (it seems the speed at which you have to masturbate seems can up by a fair bit if you&#8217;re able to sometimes come from pleasuring yourself). </p>
<p>Thank fuck for toys for women if they help. A damned good vibe that might turn on the car alarm of a car in the street below might not feel as good on meds, but it might give some ohhhhhhhhhh thankhallejuahfuckforsmallmerciesgoddimissthatfeelingohthetensionisgoingifeelgoodforonceoooh orgasm, large or small.</p>
<p>Impossible to near impossible. For guys? Well, let&#8217;s just say there ain&#8217;t no bloody vibrator for guys. A shimmying cockring with vibe ain&#8217;t the same.<br />
I don&#8217;t know about Tenga, flip toys, but could imagine the textured sheets you can get to help jack off might help. Lube, getting a decent blowjob as soon as you feel horny and get an erection can also help &#8211; For guys, a BJ might still work. Will take longer likely, but it can work.<br />
For women, same thing &#8211; cunnilingus might work, but take fucking ages, or be a good starter for sex with a vibe, or a vibe session. </p>
<p>Some meds may have a damned good reason not to tinker round with dosing etc. But speak to your doctor &#8211; chat about options. Might Cialis, or Viagra give a boost to the chance of coming, or getting light relief?<br />
Could (um, i think i read ginko extract) do the trick?<br />
Put the person who&#8217;s needing to get better first. If it&#8217;s both of you, then you&#8217;ve got more to sort, but it&#8217;s still manageable. Work through it, keep trying things, and remember there is other stuff beyond sex. I know that sounds harsh, but for those being treated for depression, you can have periods when you do feel more alive, more up. Whether it takes bunjee jumping then romping in the car, or going to Alton Towers and getting frisky in the bushes. Maybe it&#8217;s just learning to be sensual, and fin out more about each other in that light.<br />
Don&#8217;t just mess arond with your meds. Don&#8217;t just stop for because of the frustration. It&#8217;s a hard thing to accept, but the likely temporary sacrifice of orgasm and sexis for a better thing &#8211; and that&#8217;s the getting better, improving management of you, your partner, your friend&#8217;s life.</p>
<p>Talking it through is useful. I&#8217;d imagine it can affect women and men in all manner of ways. A man might want to retreat to his cave &#8211; his masculinity seemingly having taken a bodyblow. A women might feel guilt from not being able to pleasure his boyfriend, or guilt from not really feeling like they want to. etc.<br />
Don&#8217;t bottle it up.<br />
Understanding, communicating, is vital. Talk about what&#8217;s going on, silly emotions, silly thoughts whatever. It can help. </p>
<p>You might be surprised at who, and how many people, have seen the dark side of things like depression.</p>
<p>If anyone&#8217;s watched West Wing, i&#8217;d refer to the scene when Josh Lyman gets treatment for PTSD and Leo talks about him never losing his job whilst he&#8217;s around.  person falls into a hole, and can&#8217;t get out. Their friend walks by, and seeing them, jumps down to them. Person who&#8217;s been stuck down there goes &#8211; But why did you jump down? Now we both are stuck! the other one goes &#8211; but I know ways up and out &#8211; i&#8217;ve been down here before.</p>
<p>(It&#8217;s better when you watch it <img src='http://toywithme.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  )</p>
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